TL;DR: I started using charisma checks like the way we use Knowledge skills. For example, instead of rolling Persuasion to persuade someone, you can roll persuasion to get an idea about what might persuade someone. Or instead of rolling Intimidation to intimidate someone, you can preemptively roll Intimidation to understand exactly what could intimidate someone.
Long version:
My Problem with Social Skills:
I have been DMing for about 10 years now and during this time I have trained a dozen new players and 3 new DMs.
One thing that most DMs and players have struggled with was social skills.
As a player, you can pretty much roll any skill without having any knowledge about how it works in real life. You can roll Stealth to hide in game without knowing how to hide IRL, and if your roll is enough you will be hidden.
And as a DM, every skill comes with a clear scope to use it. Rolling perception won’t change anything if there is nothing to perceive and so on.
But Charisma skills seem to be an exception to both of these. It is expected to say something persuasive, intimidating, or deceptive before you roll Charisma. So you need to perform the skill in IRL BEFORE rolling it in game. And the DM might not make you roll if what you say is not intimidating, persuasive, or deceptive. It is a bit like asking a player to do a backflip before rolling Acrobatics.
And on the DM’s side, these skills can be disruptive to the game. A Charisma character can try to solve everything by talking or intimidating. And they can technically boost these skills to high heavens (looking at you Bards). It is fun when 1 or 2 situations are solved with social interaction. But if they solve every interaction with talk no jutsu it can make the game boring. And if you don’t allow them to roll, or don’t let them solve the situation even with a high roll this can make their investment in Charisma feel worthless and create tension in the group.
Also, social skill checks can limit other characters from participating in social encounters. A player might have a great idea to persuade the other side. But they might be reluctant because their character’s persuasion is low.
My Solution:
To solve this issue, I started treating Persuasion, Deception, and Intimidation just like Knowledge skills when DMing. instead of saying something persuasive and rolling Persuasion, the player rolls Persuasion before saying anything. If the roll is high enough, the DM tells them what kind of offer or rhetoric might persuade the other side. If talking won’t solve the situation the DM is also free to tell that.
This way, the players can roll Persuasion to know what to say. And DMs can limit the scope of social skills without making them obsolete. Rolling Persuasion will still give you the information that the other side is not open to diplomacy. So the player’s high stat still gives them a piece of information.
This can also be used to make non-charisma PCs participate more in social interactions. Rolling Persuasion might reveal that the Bishop you are talking to cannot be persuaded by you. But, if your Cleric emphasizes the religious aspects of your request, it might work. Or rolling Intimidation might reveal that the Orcs will not be intimidated by you. But if your Barbarian shows them a feat of strength, that might work. So the Charisma character understands exactly how to convince someone. And seeks help from other members of the party to achieve that goal.
So, what do you guys think about this?
submitted by /u/Neat_Wealth4732
[link] [comments]
r/DnD TL;DR: I started using charisma checks like the way we use Knowledge skills. For example, instead of rolling Persuasion to persuade someone, you can roll persuasion to get an idea about what might persuade someone. Or instead of rolling Intimidation to intimidate someone, you can preemptively roll Intimidation to understand exactly what could intimidate someone. Long version: My Problem with Social Skills: I have been DMing for about 10 years now and during this time I have trained a dozen new players and 3 new DMs. One thing that most DMs and players have struggled with was social skills. As a player, you can pretty much roll any skill without having any knowledge about how it works in real life. You can roll Stealth to hide in game without knowing how to hide IRL, and if your roll is enough you will be hidden. And as a DM, every skill comes with a clear scope to use it. Rolling perception won’t change anything if there is nothing to perceive and so on. But Charisma skills seem to be an exception to both of these. It is expected to say something persuasive, intimidating, or deceptive before you roll Charisma. So you need to perform the skill in IRL BEFORE rolling it in game. And the DM might not make you roll if what you say is not intimidating, persuasive, or deceptive. It is a bit like asking a player to do a backflip before rolling Acrobatics. And on the DM’s side, these skills can be disruptive to the game. A Charisma character can try to solve everything by talking or intimidating. And they can technically boost these skills to high heavens (looking at you Bards). It is fun when 1 or 2 situations are solved with social interaction. But if they solve every interaction with talk no jutsu it can make the game boring. And if you don’t allow them to roll, or don’t let them solve the situation even with a high roll this can make their investment in Charisma feel worthless and create tension in the group. Also, social skill checks can limit other characters from participating in social encounters. A player might have a great idea to persuade the other side. But they might be reluctant because their character’s persuasion is low. My Solution: To solve this issue, I started treating Persuasion, Deception, and Intimidation just like Knowledge skills when DMing. instead of saying something persuasive and rolling Persuasion, the player rolls Persuasion before saying anything. If the roll is high enough, the DM tells them what kind of offer or rhetoric might persuade the other side. If talking won’t solve the situation the DM is also free to tell that. This way, the players can roll Persuasion to know what to say. And DMs can limit the scope of social skills without making them obsolete. Rolling Persuasion will still give you the information that the other side is not open to diplomacy. So the player’s high stat still gives them a piece of information. This can also be used to make non-charisma PCs participate more in social interactions. Rolling Persuasion might reveal that the Bishop you are talking to cannot be persuaded by you. But, if your Cleric emphasizes the religious aspects of your request, it might work. Or rolling Intimidation might reveal that the Orcs will not be intimidated by you. But if your Barbarian shows them a feat of strength, that might work. So the Charisma character understands exactly how to convince someone. And seeks help from other members of the party to achieve that goal. So, what do you guys think about this? submitted by /u/Neat_Wealth4732 [link] [comments]
TL;DR: I started using charisma checks like the way we use Knowledge skills. For example, instead of rolling Persuasion to persuade someone, you can roll persuasion to get an idea about what might persuade someone. Or instead of rolling Intimidation to intimidate someone, you can preemptively roll Intimidation to understand exactly what could intimidate someone.
Long version:
My Problem with Social Skills:
I have been DMing for about 10 years now and during this time I have trained a dozen new players and 3 new DMs.
One thing that most DMs and players have struggled with was social skills.
As a player, you can pretty much roll any skill without having any knowledge about how it works in real life. You can roll Stealth to hide in game without knowing how to hide IRL, and if your roll is enough you will be hidden.
And as a DM, every skill comes with a clear scope to use it. Rolling perception won’t change anything if there is nothing to perceive and so on.
But Charisma skills seem to be an exception to both of these. It is expected to say something persuasive, intimidating, or deceptive before you roll Charisma. So you need to perform the skill in IRL BEFORE rolling it in game. And the DM might not make you roll if what you say is not intimidating, persuasive, or deceptive. It is a bit like asking a player to do a backflip before rolling Acrobatics.
And on the DM’s side, these skills can be disruptive to the game. A Charisma character can try to solve everything by talking or intimidating. And they can technically boost these skills to high heavens (looking at you Bards). It is fun when 1 or 2 situations are solved with social interaction. But if they solve every interaction with talk no jutsu it can make the game boring. And if you don’t allow them to roll, or don’t let them solve the situation even with a high roll this can make their investment in Charisma feel worthless and create tension in the group.
Also, social skill checks can limit other characters from participating in social encounters. A player might have a great idea to persuade the other side. But they might be reluctant because their character’s persuasion is low.
My Solution:
To solve this issue, I started treating Persuasion, Deception, and Intimidation just like Knowledge skills when DMing. instead of saying something persuasive and rolling Persuasion, the player rolls Persuasion before saying anything. If the roll is high enough, the DM tells them what kind of offer or rhetoric might persuade the other side. If talking won’t solve the situation the DM is also free to tell that.
This way, the players can roll Persuasion to know what to say. And DMs can limit the scope of social skills without making them obsolete. Rolling Persuasion will still give you the information that the other side is not open to diplomacy. So the player’s high stat still gives them a piece of information.
This can also be used to make non-charisma PCs participate more in social interactions. Rolling Persuasion might reveal that the Bishop you are talking to cannot be persuaded by you. But, if your Cleric emphasizes the religious aspects of your request, it might work. Or rolling Intimidation might reveal that the Orcs will not be intimidated by you. But if your Barbarian shows them a feat of strength, that might work. So the Charisma character understands exactly how to convince someone. And seeks help from other members of the party to achieve that goal.
So, what do you guys think about this?
submitted by /u/Neat_Wealth4732
[link] [comments]