Hello everyone,
I was trying to figure out the most common, stereotypical types of deities one can find within the stereotypical fantasy tabletop setting.
To do this, I was researching various types of deities one often finds in a lot of different mythologies. Some archetypes of deities that often appear include:
– Sky father, often a “high god” or deus otiosus
– Storm and wind god, a slayer of chaos monsters.
– Stars and planets, and the night sky
– Sun god
– Moon
– Earth mother
– Water
– Fire (sacrifical fire).
– Mountain
– Animals (often those associated with power, and/or of vital importance to a community)
– Vegetation
– Ruler of the Dead
(Ludwig 2006, 3618-23)
Some common evil, or antagonistic deities I have found include:
– Dark mother
– Water serpents / dragons of chaos
– Destructive Monsters confined to the underworld
– Sickness, plague and death.
(Ludwig 2006, 3618-23)
As we can see, in a lot of mythology, deities are associated with physical, tangible spheres. Those spheres that are considered beneficial or mandatory of mortal survival or prosperity are often portrayed as positive deities. They are located in the heart of communities, and prayed to, or appealed to for aid. By contrast, those spheres that are seen as dangerous or detrimental to mortal survival are often located in peripheral, dangerous environments, and are often prayed against, or warded off. No sane, healthy person actively seeks out the aid of the evil deities.
However, when I examine D&D campaigns, I have found that rarely do campaign settings conform to these patterns. There are exceptions like unique settings like Glorantha in Runquest.
However, in D&D settings, deities are often divided into moral groups or alignments, similar to a “Cold War” scenario, where there “a state of conflict between nations that does not involve direct military action but is pursued primarily through economic and political actions, propaganda, acts of espionage or proxy wars waged by surrogates.” (Wikipedia 2024, “Cold war (term).”)
For example, according to Wikipedia, when Gary Gygax first published a somewhat complete pantheon for Greyhawk, the deities seem to be defined not by physical attributes, but rather by virtues and ideals.
– Good: St. Cuthbert (forthrightness); Pholtus (resolution); Heironeous (chivalry); Ehlonna (forest); Trithereon (liberty); Zagyg (humour)
– Neutral: Celestian (stars); Fharlanghn (travel); Istus (fate); Obad-hai (nature); Boccob (magic); Olidammara (music)
– Evil: Hextor (war); Iuz (oppression); Erythnul (slaughter); Incabulos (plague); Nerull (death); Ralishaz (madness); Wastri (bigotry)
(taken from Wikipedia 2024, “Greyhawk deities.”)
We see something similar in settings like
– Blackmoor: Great Gods of Neutrality and Law VS. Gods of Chaos (Arneson 1975 [2004], 21)
– Tékumel from Empire of the Petal Throne: Tlomítlanyal VS. Tlikiriqáluyal (Barker 1983 [1987], 90)
– Krynn from Dragonlance: Gods of Good VS. Gods of Neutrality VS. Gods of Evil(Weis et al. 2005, 121-135*)*,
– Exandria from Critical Role: The Prime Deities VS. the Betrayer Gods (Mercer et al. 2021, 27-39),
– the rpg The Dark Eye: The Twelve gods VS. the Nameless & the Archdemons (Spohr and Ulrich 2016; LiquidChicagoTed 2018, post to “Gods and Demons of the Dark Eye.”)
This has led me to conclude that there are some common traits in the stereotypical “fantasy tabletop campaign setting”:
– Deities are divided into ideologies, typically labelled “Good” or “Law”, and “Evil” or “, with sometimes a “Neutral” or “Ambigious Faction in between.
– Each different faction has roughly the same number of deities.
– All the factions seem obsessed with trying to spread their ideologies.
– On the side of “good” or “law“, there is :
— a god of Light and/or the Sun
— a god of Just War and Honorable Combat
— a god of Wisdom
— a god of Life and Healing
— and finally, all the gods embody a kind of virtue.
– On the side of “evil” or “chaos“, specific :
— a god of the Dead, the Underworld, and Undeath, who is often God of Darkness
— a god of Slaughter, Carnage, and Unjust War.
— a god of Being Evil, Oppression, and Tyranny
— a god of Sickness and Dying.
— at least one (and maybe more) World-Ender(s), that wants to destroy all the universe (or worse), and which the other evil deities are willing to stop.
— and finally, all the gods embody a kind of vice.
All of the above seems to fit very well within the mold of a “divine cold war.” This makes sense within the context of a Tabletop RPG.
“Religion” in Tabletop RPGs are not meant to reflect real-life belief systems.
Rather, it is essentially the Cold War, magnified to the level of the cosmos.
The good guys represent a kind of “Liberal Democratic West.”
The bad guys represent a kind of “Authoritarian Communist East.”
Finally, if there is a neutral group, it is the “Third World” caught in the middle.
The various deities are more-or-less “Kings and Queens ruling over empires from extraplanar fortresses” allied in ideological coalitions, trying to recruit more followers and expand their sphere of influence. (Drewfro666 2016, post to “Why The Gods Don’t Need Your Worship”)
What do you think? Am I wrong? Love to see your discussion.
Works Cited
Arneson, Dave. 1975 [2004]. Dungeons & Dragons: Additional Rules for Fantastic medieval Wargames Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures: Supplement II: Blackmoor. Lake Geneva, WI: TSR Rules.
Barker, M.A.R. 1983 [1987]. Swords & Glory, vol. 1: Tekumel Source Book: The World of the Petal Throne. Self-published.
Drewfro666. 2016. Post to “Why The Gods Don’t Need Your Worship.” Reddit. Accessed January 28, 2019. https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/4rh5lw/why_the_gods_dont_need_your_worship/.
LiquidChicagoTed. 2018, November 19. Post to “Gods and Demons of the Dark Eye.” Creator’s Haven. Accessed January 4, 2024. https://creators-haven.boards.net/thread/48/gods-demons-dark-eye.
Ludwig, Theodore M. 2005. “Gods and Goddesses.” In Encyclopedia of Religion, 2nd ed., edited by Lindsay Jones, 3616-3624. Vol. 6. Detroit, MI: Macmillan.
Mercer, Matthew, Hannah Rose, and James J. Kaeck. 2021. Tal’Dorei Campaign Setting Reborn. Darrington Press.
Spohr, Alex and Jens Ulrich. 2016. The Dark Eye, 5th Edition: Core Rules, edited by Eevie Demirtel, Daniel Simon Richter, Alex Spohr, translated by Daniel Mayer, Walter milani-Müller, and Kevin MacGregor. Waldems, Germany: Ulisses Spiele GmbH.
Weis, Margaret, Don Perrin, Jame Chambers, and Christopher Coyle. 2005. Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast.
Wikipedia. 2024. “Cold war (term).” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Last updated December 31, 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war_(term).
Wikipedia. 2024. “Greyhawk deities.” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Last updated December 14, 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_deities
submitted by /u/Zestyclose-Advisor71
[link] [comments]
r/DnD Hello everyone, I was trying to figure out the most common, stereotypical types of deities one can find within the stereotypical fantasy tabletop setting. To do this, I was researching various types of deities one often finds in a lot of different mythologies. Some archetypes of deities that often appear include: – Sky father, often a “high god” or deus otiosus – Storm and wind god, a slayer of chaos monsters. – Stars and planets, and the night sky – Sun god – Moon – Earth mother – Water – Fire (sacrifical fire). – Mountain – Animals (often those associated with power, and/or of vital importance to a community) – Vegetation – Ruler of the Dead (Ludwig 2006, 3618-23) Some common evil, or antagonistic deities I have found include: – Dark mother – Water serpents / dragons of chaos – Destructive Monsters confined to the underworld – Sickness, plague and death. (Ludwig 2006, 3618-23) As we can see, in a lot of mythology, deities are associated with physical, tangible spheres. Those spheres that are considered beneficial or mandatory of mortal survival or prosperity are often portrayed as positive deities. They are located in the heart of communities, and prayed to, or appealed to for aid. By contrast, those spheres that are seen as dangerous or detrimental to mortal survival are often located in peripheral, dangerous environments, and are often prayed against, or warded off. No sane, healthy person actively seeks out the aid of the evil deities. However, when I examine D&D campaigns, I have found that rarely do campaign settings conform to these patterns. There are exceptions like unique settings like Glorantha in Runquest. However, in D&D settings, deities are often divided into moral groups or alignments, similar to a “Cold War” scenario, where there “a state of conflict between nations that does not involve direct military action but is pursued primarily through economic and political actions, propaganda, acts of espionage or proxy wars waged by surrogates.” (Wikipedia 2024, “Cold war (term).”) For example, according to Wikipedia, when Gary Gygax first published a somewhat complete pantheon for Greyhawk, the deities seem to be defined not by physical attributes, but rather by virtues and ideals. – Good: St. Cuthbert (forthrightness); Pholtus (resolution); Heironeous (chivalry); Ehlonna (forest); Trithereon (liberty); Zagyg (humour) – Neutral: Celestian (stars); Fharlanghn (travel); Istus (fate); Obad-hai (nature); Boccob (magic); Olidammara (music) – Evil: Hextor (war); Iuz (oppression); Erythnul (slaughter); Incabulos (plague); Nerull (death); Ralishaz (madness); Wastri (bigotry) (taken from Wikipedia 2024, “Greyhawk deities.”) We see something similar in settings like – Blackmoor: Great Gods of Neutrality and Law VS. Gods of Chaos (Arneson 1975 [2004], 21) – Tékumel from Empire of the Petal Throne: Tlomítlanyal VS. Tlikiriqáluyal (Barker 1983 [1987], 90) – Krynn from Dragonlance: Gods of Good VS. Gods of Neutrality VS. Gods of Evil(Weis et al. 2005, 121-135*)*, – Exandria from Critical Role: The Prime Deities VS. the Betrayer Gods (Mercer et al. 2021, 27-39), – the rpg The Dark Eye: The Twelve gods VS. the Nameless & the Archdemons (Spohr and Ulrich 2016; LiquidChicagoTed 2018, post to “Gods and Demons of the Dark Eye.”) This has led me to conclude that there are some common traits in the stereotypical “fantasy tabletop campaign setting”: – Deities are divided into ideologies, typically labelled “Good” or “Law”, and “Evil” or “, with sometimes a “Neutral” or “Ambigious Faction in between. – Each different faction has roughly the same number of deities. – All the factions seem obsessed with trying to spread their ideologies. – On the side of “good” or “law”, there is : — a god of Light and/or the Sun — a god of Just War and Honorable Combat — a god of Wisdom — a god of Life and Healing — and finally, all the gods embody a kind of virtue. – On the side of “evil” or “chaos”, specific : — a god of the Dead, the Underworld, and Undeath, who is often God of Darkness — a god of Slaughter, Carnage, and Unjust War. — a god of Being Evil, Oppression, and Tyranny — a god of Sickness and Dying. — at least one (and maybe more) World-Ender(s), that wants to destroy all the universe (or worse), and which the other evil deities are willing to stop. — and finally, all the gods embody a kind of vice. All of the above seems to fit very well within the mold of a “divine cold war.” This makes sense within the context of a Tabletop RPG. “Religion” in Tabletop RPGs are not meant to reflect real-life belief systems. Rather, it is essentially the Cold War, magnified to the level of the cosmos. The good guys represent a kind of “Liberal Democratic West.” The bad guys represent a kind of “Authoritarian Communist East.” Finally, if there is a neutral group, it is the “Third World” caught in the middle. The various deities are more-or-less “Kings and Queens ruling over empires from extraplanar fortresses” allied in ideological coalitions, trying to recruit more followers and expand their sphere of influence. (Drewfro666 2016, post to “Why The Gods Don’t Need Your Worship”) What do you think? Am I wrong? Love to see your discussion. Works Cited Arneson, Dave. 1975 [2004]. Dungeons & Dragons: Additional Rules for Fantastic medieval Wargames Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures: Supplement II: Blackmoor. Lake Geneva, WI: TSR Rules. Barker, M.A.R. 1983 [1987]. Swords & Glory, vol. 1: Tekumel Source Book: The World of the Petal Throne. Self-published. Drewfro666. 2016. Post to “Why The Gods Don’t Need Your Worship.” Reddit. Accessed January 28, 2019. https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/4rh5lw/why_the_gods_dont_need_your_worship/. LiquidChicagoTed. 2018, November 19. Post to “Gods and Demons of the Dark Eye.” Creator’s Haven. Accessed January 4, 2024. https://creators-haven.boards.net/thread/48/gods-demons-dark-eye. Ludwig, Theodore M. 2005. “Gods and Goddesses.” In Encyclopedia of Religion, 2nd ed., edited by Lindsay Jones, 3616-3624. Vol. 6. Detroit, MI: Macmillan. Mercer, Matthew, Hannah Rose, and James J. Kaeck. 2021. Tal’Dorei Campaign Setting Reborn. Darrington Press. Spohr, Alex and Jens Ulrich. 2016. The Dark Eye, 5th Edition: Core Rules, edited by Eevie Demirtel, Daniel Simon Richter, Alex Spohr, translated by Daniel Mayer, Walter milani-Müller, and Kevin MacGregor. Waldems, Germany: Ulisses Spiele GmbH. Weis, Margaret, Don Perrin, Jame Chambers, and Christopher Coyle. 2005. Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast. Wikipedia. 2024. “Cold war (term).” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Last updated December 31, 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war_(term). Wikipedia. 2024. “Greyhawk deities.” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Last updated December 14, 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_deities submitted by /u/Zestyclose-Advisor71 [link] [comments]
Hello everyone,
I was trying to figure out the most common, stereotypical types of deities one can find within the stereotypical fantasy tabletop setting.
To do this, I was researching various types of deities one often finds in a lot of different mythologies. Some archetypes of deities that often appear include:
– Sky father, often a “high god” or deus otiosus
– Storm and wind god, a slayer of chaos monsters.
– Stars and planets, and the night sky
– Sun god
– Moon
– Earth mother
– Water
– Fire (sacrifical fire).
– Mountain
– Animals (often those associated with power, and/or of vital importance to a community)
– Vegetation
– Ruler of the Dead
(Ludwig 2006, 3618-23)
Some common evil, or antagonistic deities I have found include:
– Dark mother
– Water serpents / dragons of chaos
– Destructive Monsters confined to the underworld
– Sickness, plague and death.
(Ludwig 2006, 3618-23)
As we can see, in a lot of mythology, deities are associated with physical, tangible spheres. Those spheres that are considered beneficial or mandatory of mortal survival or prosperity are often portrayed as positive deities. They are located in the heart of communities, and prayed to, or appealed to for aid. By contrast, those spheres that are seen as dangerous or detrimental to mortal survival are often located in peripheral, dangerous environments, and are often prayed against, or warded off. No sane, healthy person actively seeks out the aid of the evil deities.
However, when I examine D&D campaigns, I have found that rarely do campaign settings conform to these patterns. There are exceptions like unique settings like Glorantha in Runquest.
However, in D&D settings, deities are often divided into moral groups or alignments, similar to a “Cold War” scenario, where there “a state of conflict between nations that does not involve direct military action but is pursued primarily through economic and political actions, propaganda, acts of espionage or proxy wars waged by surrogates.” (Wikipedia 2024, “Cold war (term).”)
For example, according to Wikipedia, when Gary Gygax first published a somewhat complete pantheon for Greyhawk, the deities seem to be defined not by physical attributes, but rather by virtues and ideals.
– Good: St. Cuthbert (forthrightness); Pholtus (resolution); Heironeous (chivalry); Ehlonna (forest); Trithereon (liberty); Zagyg (humour)
– Neutral: Celestian (stars); Fharlanghn (travel); Istus (fate); Obad-hai (nature); Boccob (magic); Olidammara (music)
– Evil: Hextor (war); Iuz (oppression); Erythnul (slaughter); Incabulos (plague); Nerull (death); Ralishaz (madness); Wastri (bigotry)
(taken from Wikipedia 2024, “Greyhawk deities.”)
We see something similar in settings like
– Blackmoor: Great Gods of Neutrality and Law VS. Gods of Chaos (Arneson 1975 [2004], 21)
– Tékumel from Empire of the Petal Throne: Tlomítlanyal VS. Tlikiriqáluyal (Barker 1983 [1987], 90)
– Krynn from Dragonlance: Gods of Good VS. Gods of Neutrality VS. Gods of Evil(Weis et al. 2005, 121-135*)*,
– Exandria from Critical Role: The Prime Deities VS. the Betrayer Gods (Mercer et al. 2021, 27-39),
– the rpg The Dark Eye: The Twelve gods VS. the Nameless & the Archdemons (Spohr and Ulrich 2016; LiquidChicagoTed 2018, post to “Gods and Demons of the Dark Eye.”)
This has led me to conclude that there are some common traits in the stereotypical “fantasy tabletop campaign setting”:
– Deities are divided into ideologies, typically labelled “Good” or “Law”, and “Evil” or “, with sometimes a “Neutral” or “Ambigious Faction in between.
– Each different faction has roughly the same number of deities.
– All the factions seem obsessed with trying to spread their ideologies.
– On the side of “good” or “law“, there is :
— a god of Light and/or the Sun
— a god of Just War and Honorable Combat
— a god of Wisdom
— a god of Life and Healing
— and finally, all the gods embody a kind of virtue.
– On the side of “evil” or “chaos“, specific :
— a god of the Dead, the Underworld, and Undeath, who is often God of Darkness
— a god of Slaughter, Carnage, and Unjust War.
— a god of Being Evil, Oppression, and Tyranny
— a god of Sickness and Dying.
— at least one (and maybe more) World-Ender(s), that wants to destroy all the universe (or worse), and which the other evil deities are willing to stop.
— and finally, all the gods embody a kind of vice.
All of the above seems to fit very well within the mold of a “divine cold war.” This makes sense within the context of a Tabletop RPG.
“Religion” in Tabletop RPGs are not meant to reflect real-life belief systems.
Rather, it is essentially the Cold War, magnified to the level of the cosmos.
The good guys represent a kind of “Liberal Democratic West.”
The bad guys represent a kind of “Authoritarian Communist East.”
Finally, if there is a neutral group, it is the “Third World” caught in the middle.
The various deities are more-or-less “Kings and Queens ruling over empires from extraplanar fortresses” allied in ideological coalitions, trying to recruit more followers and expand their sphere of influence. (Drewfro666 2016, post to “Why The Gods Don’t Need Your Worship”)
What do you think? Am I wrong? Love to see your discussion.
Works Cited
Arneson, Dave. 1975 [2004]. Dungeons & Dragons: Additional Rules for Fantastic medieval Wargames Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Miniature Figures: Supplement II: Blackmoor. Lake Geneva, WI: TSR Rules.
Barker, M.A.R. 1983 [1987]. Swords & Glory, vol. 1: Tekumel Source Book: The World of the Petal Throne. Self-published.
Drewfro666. 2016. Post to “Why The Gods Don’t Need Your Worship.” Reddit. Accessed January 28, 2019. https://www.reddit.com/r/DnDBehindTheScreen/comments/4rh5lw/why_the_gods_dont_need_your_worship/.
LiquidChicagoTed. 2018, November 19. Post to “Gods and Demons of the Dark Eye.” Creator’s Haven. Accessed January 4, 2024. https://creators-haven.boards.net/thread/48/gods-demons-dark-eye.
Ludwig, Theodore M. 2005. “Gods and Goddesses.” In Encyclopedia of Religion, 2nd ed., edited by Lindsay Jones, 3616-3624. Vol. 6. Detroit, MI: Macmillan.
Mercer, Matthew, Hannah Rose, and James J. Kaeck. 2021. Tal’Dorei Campaign Setting Reborn. Darrington Press.
Spohr, Alex and Jens Ulrich. 2016. The Dark Eye, 5th Edition: Core Rules, edited by Eevie Demirtel, Daniel Simon Richter, Alex Spohr, translated by Daniel Mayer, Walter milani-Müller, and Kevin MacGregor. Waldems, Germany: Ulisses Spiele GmbH.
Weis, Margaret, Don Perrin, Jame Chambers, and Christopher Coyle. 2005. Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast.
Wikipedia. 2024. “Cold war (term).” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Last updated December 31, 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war_(term).
Wikipedia. 2024. “Greyhawk deities.” Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Last updated December 14, 2024. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_deities
submitted by /u/Zestyclose-Advisor71
[link] [comments]